If you've been reading my last couple of blogs, then you should know that our church (EvergreenLA) will be the host site for the C.S.I. (Christians on Social Issues) event "We Need to Talk: A Needed Conversation between 3 Old Friends (2 straight and 1 gay)." We will also be screening "In God's House" which is a short documentary featuring three AsiAm lesbians and their families. Harold and Ellen Kameya, one of the featured sets of parents, will be joining the conversation following the film. And, yes, Director Chris Wong is still making a short film of this entire process which we hope will demonstrate how important it is for concerned people to come together and engage in respectful conversation around this divisive issue. If you're going to be in LA on Saturday, May 10, I hope you can be there. It is scheduled to run from 7-9:30 pm. From what I've heard so far, a number of openly homosexual AsiAms (Christian and Non) are planning to attend. Even though they have been told that this event is not aimed at converting people to their way of thinking, they are excited that there is going to be an open conversation.
By now, if you're interested, you can podcast my first of two messages (www.ebcla.org) on homosexuality in order to prepare our church for what's coming. Under the umbrella of "Is there a place for homosexuals in the evangelical church?", I called the first message "Conviction." Rather than go over the six main biblical passages that address homosexuality, I chose instead to lay out the traditional Christian interpretation of what the Bible says about gender, sexual intercourse, and marriage. Ultimately, I tried to make a clear case that God purposely created us as a gendered people to reflect his image, with an inherent desire to experience the fullness of God's image through the joining with the opposite sex within the commitment of covenantal love. However, the Fall sullied what God had designed for good and ever since, ALL of human sexuality has been broken (not just homosexuality). Christ offers all of us whose desires and longings have been tainted by sin a way to experience the redemption of our sexual selves, but it means aligning ourselves with his moral precepts that are found in his Word. I shared that my biggest struggle with Christian homosexuals is that they seem to think that, unlike other broken sexual beings, they deserve a "pass" on purity, chastity and celibacy. This Sunday, I'll be giving the second message, "Civility" where I'll try and describe how we must endeavor to co-exist with those who don't share our convictions.
This first message was, in a way, tough for me to deliver because I knew ahead of time that I would upset many of my close friends at church who have a much more liberal way of looking at this issue. And I know that some of the more conservative friends who were thrilled with my first message may be disturbed by some of what I say in this second message. Someone asked me, following my first message, what I'm hoping to accomplish by putting so much focus on this tough and divisive issue. Honestly, it's really just two things. First, I hope to bring this issue out of the shadows, to enable people to talk honestly about it, and to encourage those who are struggling with it to share these struggles at church. Some of this conversation is starting to take place now, just because we've put the topic on the table. Second, even though I know that I won't go far enough for some people, I hope that our church can at least be a safe place for those who are struggling with homosexual feelings (especially) and perhaps even with homosexual behavior (to some degree). We haven't been that in the past, we're not that now, but I hope we will continue to seek ways to be more like that in the near future.
Even if the May 10th event fails to live up to my expectations, I've already been tremendously enriched and challenged by the numerous conversations I've had with Gary Hayashi (gay friend on the panel), Marian Sunabe (straight friend who affirms homosexuals without condition), family members of LGBTs, and even LGBTs outside of the Christian circle.
How are you affected by this issue? Have you told anyone to come to this event? How have you managed to live with the tension between Christian convictions and loving your neighbor as yourself?
pken.
Comments (14)
it's interesting that you distinguished between the 2... they can be similar or totally different things to different people who struggle with it personally
Hi PK,
I thought your sermon on this issue was bold and I feel you did a great job of explaining the reasons why there can not be a free pass for not only this topic, but for many of our sins we struggle with. I'm looking forward to part 2 and hopefully, by starting this discussion, it will inspire other churches and Xians to openly discuss this topic and other issues we all tend to avoid.Thank you for being on the edge.
Even though they have been told that this event is not aimed at converting people to their way of thinking
This is probably the main reason people would rather not be around homosexuals. Is it similar to Christians being overly zealous in their beliefs with non-Christians?
I don't think the link to the online podcast work - it listed your message, but no link to the MP3.
The primary Christian message is that we hate homosexuals, at least according to the press. Apparently the press also thinks we care more about flag lapel pins and some Bosnia visit a decade ago instead of the economy, gasoline policy, and health care reform...
So if we can shed a little truth that we're not all about hate, we've taken a good step...
very fascinating post. i look forward to your follow up entry!
"I hope that our church can at least be a safe place for those who are struggling with homosexual feelings (especially) and perhaps even with homosexual behavior (to some degree)."
my mom was talking about a testimony she heard from a gay christian (perhaps previously gay? i donno), and how he said the first time he felt truly accepted was when he went inside a gay bar for the first time. i think this reveals one of the major issues american society places on gay people, and i believe christians do it worse (show less acceptance). i don't mean it's done in obvious/blatant hatred, but in subtle ways, with our everyday word choices. when reading this one sentence that i'm quoting, i totally know what you mean. however, i want to assert that i hope your church is a safe place for those who are struggling with homosexual feelings as well as those who are not struggling with homosexual feelings (whether or not they have them--the struggling part is what exists or not). of course, i don't think you meant "a place to meet Jesus" as "safe place", but perhaps "a place where gays can not only struggle with homosexual feelings (and to some degree participate in homosexual behavior ?? not sure if this is your some degree point), but also a place where those gays can grow and mature in parallel with Jesus"... something like that.
anyway, i don't mean to be knit-picky, even tho i sorta do mean to be. even the title "Is there a place for homosexuals in the evangelical church?" seems a bit redundant. maybe it's just me, but i assume that the answer is "no, not yet", even tho there are probably some homosexuals in the evangelical church, i bet the majority of those gays exist secretly. Is the place for homosexuals the evangelical church closet? :)
i think this topic is so difficult to have in the church because of the clash between church goers who iterate and reiterate homosexual behavior is sinful and the homosexual (perhaps closeted/secret about this) church goers who have been told that their whole life and hate who they are so much already, that why would they ever feel up to the task of having a conversation about how they're so sinful by default. i think it's going to be soooooo hard to get those closeted folks to talk in any church arena because i'm guessing the majority (sure, not all) hate that part of themselves so much they can't begin to deal with it. some day when the "safe place" exists for gays (whether or not they are struggling gays), i think that will allow for a more solid conversation, where voices are not only heard by the minority, but by those who need a safe place to exist before they can ask for one.
yada yada, i hope my comments are not offense. i'm just dialoging. :)
Thanks for bringing this issue out in the Asian-American Christian world. I always find it tough to bring up these issues at church--so much fear of divisiveness and offense.
God purposely created us as a gendered people to reflect his image
I hear this from Christians, but find this statement offensive in itself. Clearly there have been enough genetic changes throughout time since Adam and Eve that not everyone is created gendered. Physically some are born neither male nor female (or both), and are forced to become physically male for example, while perhaps emotionally being female. I would argue that there are also people that are genetically born physically female but emotionally male (or vice versa). Thus while God may have created Adam and Eve to be gendered, it's difficult to say that God purposely created us all as a gendered people. This seems to leave those that are born "different" out in the cold as not being purposely created by God.
Gay partnership without the sex act--isn't that biblical?
The only anti-gay Christian interpretation I've been okay with is one from a buddy of mine, who interprets scripture as clearly saying the homosexual intercourse is a sin. Thus gay & lesbian Christians could live together and share possessions and bank accounts and live a normal life, but as part of a conservatively Bible-interpreting church, would be committing a sin whenever they engaged in sexual intercourse.
Given how little most people seem to have sex after the first few years of marriage, doesn't seem like they'd be sinning any more than any other heterosexual couple in the church where the man lusts after a female jogger during the first warm days of spring.
My struggle with the evangelical church is that a homosexual act is viewed as the ultimate sin which defines one's faith forever. And that my above example, if allowed in church, would cause people to be disgusted and horrified. It doesn't seem fair that heterosexual sins don't cause disgust and horror, whereas the gay and lesbian monogamous lifestyle somehow ends up attacking the core of peoples' faiths and convictions.
I'm from the Portland/Seattle area. I think you know who Pastor Eugene Cho is in Seattle. He had some really intense dialog through his blog that might be of interest to your readers.
http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/eugene-dan-savage-and-the-gay-conversation/
http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/2007/08/09/the-gay-dialogue/
when will this sermon be on podcast? :)
Kudos for the balls to charter these divisive waters - it's timely and long overdue. Funny that just this this week in my read of W. Brueggemann's Mandate to Difference - "...the church is a venue for dialogue in the midst of a monologic culture that finds such dialogue to be an unbearable threat that might be mightily resisted. Dialogue, I suggest, is not merely a strategy, but it is a practice that is congruent with our deepest nature, made as we are in the image of a dialogic God." Stay on track my friend.
Peace from NYC,
Ezer
Both messages should be up midweek.
Hey Pastor Ken,
I look forward to the discussion in May, In the mean time I found this clip on YouTube that I found moving. In particular the part where Russ talks about embracing who he is and accepts responsibility for acting appropriately in dealing with his struggles with homosexuality. If you/we can get past the "he's a Mormon" I think this is a very powerful example of a man who has found hope and live as a "Christian" — not to get into the "he's not a Christian" argument. Hope you enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmMd6sOMams